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It's a travesty, a parody of a free system.  I'm appalled and disgusted by it.


p.s.  It's called co-dependency.  One big, freakin bail-out instead of allowing accountability.  


I got a kick out of this article today.


it is, like you say, a travesty, a parody, ...a co-dependent sickness.  and at times I don't want to know about it. I want to cover my ears and go lalalalalalala...  but I force myself to be aware of what is happening. 

Hangaku Gozen

You took the words right out of my mouth.

As Greenwald points out, what's profoundly disappointing about this "crisis" is that the Democrats in Congress have essentially dropped their pants and bent over. There's been no attempt on their part to refuse giving $70 billion to "broke" Wall Street financiers when the government is in a severe deficit and we continue to hemorrhage money in Iraq. This is socialism for the rich at its worst.

Meanwhile, regular folks like us can't even declare bankruptcy when we're really broke, thanks to Obama's running mate Joe Biden, who helped rewrite the laws so that the banks and credit card companies can actually take away pensions and Social Security checks from old people. I doubt if any of the CEOs at Lehman Bros. have to worry about their pensions being shrived by anyone.

I'm ready to take to the barracades. Guillotine, anyone?


Guillotine, anyone?  
very tempting, but at this point I'd be happy to see investment bankers and financiers forced to send their kids to !gasp!  public schools.

I can't wait for Eliza to become President.  she'll pass legislation with real claws on it.


I want to ask this because I don't know the answer. (paying attention is new to me --- stupid, I know, but it's the truth.)
What would have happened if the government (us) did NOT bail them out?


ygrs, I'm not sure anyone knows what would have happened.  the theory may go something like this:   if we allow financial powerhouses to go under, it will affect their shareholders, whose shares would effectively be worth nothing. among those would be pension plans, indivudual 401k accounts and the such.  also, allowing such a failure could  cause a panic and a run on the banks with people taking their money home and stuffing it under their mattresses.  with no money, the banks would be unable to extend credit, bringing the entire economy to a halt*
* there may be more, or different.  Iz not a economistic person, 


Thanks mariser! What a mess. I've been watching Bill Maher recently and it's interesting listening to him & the people he gets on as panelists. He's funny but I'm actually learning stuff. And it's shocking to hear what people say has been going on and continues to go on. Like this bail-out doesn't really solve the real problem --- it just puts it off until a later date, at which point it WILL then turn around and blow up in our faces. All these billions and billions of dollars that our government doles out (and DOESN'T dole out) --- it's like they have this endless supply of money, when 1. they DON'T and 2. it's OUR money anyway.
I iz not a economistic person either. But for some reason I thought the people in charge of everything would be handling it properly. Wow was I wrong, huh.
And what sakura senshi said about "Socialism for the rich at it's worst" --- that's a phrase that I heard just this weekend on Bill Maher. They're right.

Cap'n Stephel

What's another few hundred billion down the drain? ::rolls eyes::I wish I could be bailed out for making a big bad decision with my money, too. Maybe I need to get into that business

Hangaku Gozen

Another argument is that so many people have their retirement savings tied up in mutual funds, bond-based IRAs, money market accounts, etc. all run by these bastards, that they'll also be sucked down the toilet with these banks. I  think we were all encouraged by financial planners and their ilk to put our money into these funds back in their heyday---"Your money will grow a lot faster!" "You need to diversify in case the market goes up!

(Never down---nobody talked about that; if you did you were a spoilsport, a naysayer.)

But now you have all these boomers who are on the verge of retirement and who will have nothing to fall back on. We'll all be back to bagging groceries and delivering newspapers, just like when we were 16 years old. Except we don't have Mom and Dad's house to go back to at the end of the day, and the folks aren't buying the groceries for us anymore.

What a mess. I'll never trust a broker.

Hangaku Gozen

I can't wait for Eliza to become President. she'll pass legislation with real claws on it.

Eliza is already planning to bite Henry Paulson's head off and hang his tail on the flagpole on top of the White House.

She supports capital punishment for rats.


"...We'll all be back to bagging groceries and delivering newspapers, ..."
That's what I've always known I'll have to be doing anyway...so I'll be having alot of company bagging groceries & flipping burgers with me now? Sad...


What would happen if no one stepped in? Eventually, we'd all go under. By "eventually" I mean before christmas. There is something funamentally wrong with the market, right now. There does need to be government intervention. The question isn't how much, but how. I say with full congressional oversight, and without a near totalitarian reliance upon the executive branch. But, if you think that it'd just be some stock brokers who'd be SOL without the government's intervention, you are sorely, sorely mistaken. If you are some kind of survivalist, who grows their own food, and spins their own fabric, and makes their own medecine, then, sure, this "bail out" won't help you. Otherwise, you're part of this mess.


Our whole financial system is so broken.  Way broken.  To think people made millions and millions getting us here and they'll probably be paid millions and millions to leave us this way and be thanked for their loyal and valued service to boot.


oh, arbed, that article is brilliant.  I just now got a chance to read it.
overall, I'd rather be in France.

Cap'n Crook

Agreed. Although this smacks of wealthy fat cats scratching each others' backs, it'd be far more dire straits for everyone if there was no bailout. It's really lose-lose for all of us no matter what happened. Only difference being whether it's wasted tax money, or as sakura said, your investment portfolio.

Time to think about moving to Canada.


Time to think about moving to Canada.

easy for you to say.  ;)

but seriously, this bailout also smacks of a temporary delay and the chips will eventually have to fall where they may. 

I would like some freaking accountability, for a change. at least some Democrats are showing a bit of backbone and refusing to make Hank Paulson King of the World without some explanation


this bailout also smacks of a temporary delay and the chips will eventually have to fall where they may;


Yes and no.

Additional liquidity in the commercial paper market could go in several directions. So, if we just did the executive branch's plan, no alterations, economically it could go in one of three directions: 1. The additional credit would keep the economy going for 2-3 years, after which we'd be needing additional measures, most likely some changes in the organization of several investment firms or 2. The additional credit will have righted the ship, and profits would be up enough that the borrowers will have paid off their loans from the Fed, and we'll all laugh a merry little titter at the though of additional tax burdens or 3. The Credit market will be already too far gone, and we'll have to start defaulting on the loans, meaning massive tax hikes, and out-of-control trade problems. America will become a debtor, third world nation.

Obviously, I'm betting on option 1. But, here's the thing: without some kind of temporary fix, involving massive sums of cash, the credit market will crash within weeks, tops. After that, all hell will be loose. Food goes up, fuel goes up, major firms go under, students cannot get loans, meaning that schools will start having to cut back enormously, car and home sales go into near lockdown, meaning that construction, and services follow shortly thereafter, and, like i said before, we're all pretty much screwed by Christmas. The bill is coming due for all the crazy spending we've been doing. We can pay some now, and some later, or we can watch it all burn. Any way you slice it, it comes up; we'll need about 2000-4000 bucks out of everyone's pockets, and that's not for our crazy levels of growth: that's just to tread water.

some freaking accountability?

I agree 200%: I think not only should the folks with Golden parachutes pay, and pay very hard for widescale bank fraud but also we should all should have higher taxes. Also, we should adopt Spanish styled lending practices, and yes, some folks should lose their homes, and yes, we should turn some institutionspublic, and we should have a social net advanced enough that when you're held accountable for a financial mistake, like getting a loan you cannot pay, bankruptcy doesn't mean your kids can't go to school, and it's practically impossible for you to get health care, or even rent a decent apartment. In other words, i'd like to see ALL of us be accountable, on all levels.

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As Greenwald indicates, what's deeply baffling concerning this "emergency" is that the Democrats in Congress have basically dropped their gasps and curved over. There's been no endeavor on their part to reject giving $70 billion to "broke" Wall Street agents when the legislature is in a severe shortage and we carry on to discharge coin in Iraq. This is socialism for the rich even from a pessimistic standpoint.

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